RBA Reader Poll - results
Do you support the Hawk and Owl Trust in their support for brood management of Hen Harriers?
Our poll asking you if you supported the Hawk and Owl Trust Hen Harrier brood management plans has now closed and we have the results.
The poll ran for the last seven days and as well as being publicised in our newsletter it was also publicised on social media, on Twitter and Facebook. The poll was open to anyone who wanted to take part and during the week we could see birders, conservationists as well as organisations representing shooting and hunting interests sharing links to the poll. Hopefully through this a wide cross section of people were reached and given the opportunity to vote. It is worth noting however that one organisation who did not share the poll with their followers was the Hawk and Owl Trust themselves.
What is clear from the results is that despite the Hawk and Owl Trust explaining at some length, their rationale behind backing Hen Harrier brood management, they are failing to win support for their plans, in fact it is diminishing.
We had 1004 votes in the poll and 80% of those who took part said they did not support the Hawk and Owl Trust in their plans to take part in Hen Harrier brood management. Last time we asked this question (back in January this year) this figure was 70%. Just 15% said they do support the Trust’s position, down from 17% last time.
Interestingly when we ran the poll in January nearly 10% said they would like to know more before voting, this time around the number who needed to know more was only 2%. Clearly people are more informed on the subject and do not like what they hear. This is despite their Chair Philip Merricks giving an in-depth interview to our Talking Naturally podcast on their plans.
As well as voting for or against the planes people were allowed to leave comments. We were planning to publish just a selection of these comments but have decided to publish all them. It is clear from many of the comments that those taking part are engaged, passionate and informed when it comes to the subject of Hen Harrier brood management. We felt that we should publish all the comments to make sure these opinions are heard and hopefully taken on board.
As the only conservation organisation currently backing Hen Harrier brood management (in the current circumstances) the Hawk and Owl Trust are very much out on a limb. They are losing support, from a very low level to begin with, and reading many of the comments left by voters, losing credibility amongst birders and wildlife enthusiasts. These are the very kinds of people organisations such as the Hawk and Owl Trust rely on so it seems odd to say the least that they should continue with a policy which is clearly at odds with these views.
So what next for the Hen Harrier brood management debate?
Well for starters we very much hope that the Hawk and Owl Trust do not simply dismiss the views of over 1000 people as not representative of wider opinion. The numbers show that as people know more about the plans they are less inclined to support them. For an organistaion such as the Hawk and Owl Trust participate such a controversial practice as Hen Harrier brood management they would surely want to take their members and the wider 'nature-loving' public with them? As the H&OT have not publicised this poll to their 17,000 followers on Twitter and 7,000+ followers on Facebook perhaps they may consider running their own poll? Surely a decision like this is too important not too, isn't it?
As when we ran our poll back in January we will again pass on the results of the poll to the Hawk and Owl Trust and would be very interested, as we are sure all those who took part this time around will be, to hear their thoughts on the results.
Regular readers on issues relating to Hen Harrier brood management will know that Rare Bird Alert along with many other organistaions and individuals do not believe it is the way forward. The illegal killing of Hen Harriers and other raptors on grouse moors has to stop, the law of the land must be enforced. If this is not possible, due to the nature of the crimes being committed and the difficulties in detecting and prosecuting, then the practice which fuels the crime, driven grouse shooting, must be banned immediately. This is the only way to guarantee the safety of legally protected Hen Harriers and other raptors on our uplands.
Rare Bird Alert
01 September 2015
Comments from poll participants
Below are all of the comments left during the poll. They are in order of when they left with most recent at the top. They are unedited apart from removing people's personal details if they included with their comments and the occasional expletive!
No - 'Has this brood management been highly successful with other hawks, owls etc.,? I have not noted this mentioned in all suggestions and ideas put forward.'
No - 'It is wrong to cap hen Harriers so that people can have more grouse to shoot. We should leave nature alone.'
No - 'This is simply rolling over and laying down. The Hawk and Owl Trust is very misguided.'
No - 'The only brood management I would support would be that of Humans..'
No - 'It is ridiculous that we should let gamekeepers have their way after all this campaigning.'
Undecided - 'Hen Harriers are already at such low numbers that to keep their broods small will just hasten their decline '
No - 'The only ultimate solution is to stop the illegal killing of our raptors.'
No - 'Perhaps we should trial pheasant brood management too........FAR to many of them and not even a native species!!!'
No - 'Brood meddling is a slippery slope. Where does it end?'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'I'd have said 'no' before listening to this. The HOT would have to pull out of supporting brood management on its own terms (the 2nd condition won't be met, though I'm not convinced by the HOT's argument that it'd be effective by peer group pressure so maybe it's not something that will have to be considered as the shooters'll get away with it scot-free). Where has harrier brood management been tried, as referred to by Prof Newton? How many willing hosts on a grouse moor are there? Could hhs survive on the Salisbury plain? But with years of tory government ahead, what're the chances of licensing shooting estates in the near term (despite what the SNP's Environment minister may say)? HOT's taxpayer argument is quite convincing. Merricks does sound like a total fuddy duddy re: social media, he should retire and let someone more knowledgeable in this context take over. I'm not educated in conservation science. I studied social sciences at post-grad level. The socio-economic context appears to be overlooked by conservation scientists, I'm not sure if someone with a PhD in conservation science isn't immune from being politically naive. Merricks is correct, the law doesn't work in all areas.'
No - 'Hen harriers, their nests, eggs and young are all afforded special protection measures under Schedule I of the 1981 Wildlife & Countryside Act (as amended). Given the perilous staus of the species, it is very unlikely that Natural England would licence any disturbance of this species at all.'
No - 'Any such trial is all hypothetical until the industry shows some movement on illegal killing - at present movement is in the opposite direction and the species is exterminated from many areas where it should live, including my home county of Lothian.'
No - 'I have read Mark Avery's book and listened to Philip Merricks on Talking Naturally. Mark's arguments are far more convincing and based on scientific evidence. Hen Harriers don't need brood management; their numbers will recover if illegal persecution is stopped.'
No - 'Couldn't possibly work, whoever came up with such a ludicrous idea needs sectioning.'
No - 'It is remarkable and very unfortunate that HOT have decided to do this in the absence of any information on exactly what the trial would be. The only honourable behaviour apparent so far was Chris Packham's resignation.'
No - 'The driven grouse shooters expect to have an unnaturally high number of grouse to be shot. If they obeyed the law by not killing birds of prey and so shot fewer grouse (as some would be eaten by predators), we wouldn't even be having this debate. The shooters should obey the law first, and accept lower numbers of grouse. It shouldn't be everyone else trying to find ways to accommodate their demand for ridiculously high grouse populations for shoots. Criminality should not be rewarded by meddling with our rare breeding birds!'
No - 'the hen harrier must be allowed to breed and survive wherever it wants. Stop the greed of these landowners and help this beautiful endangered species NOW!!'
No - 'The illegal killing of birds of prey must be stopped. The HOT should concentrate on this rather than diffuse the situation with a brood management trial.'
No - 'It is highly irresponsible of H&OT to support brood manageent at a time when numbers of breeding birds in the wild are so vastly below expected levels. Active and illegal persecution by moorland managers has brought Hen Harriers close to extinction as a breeding species in England. The H&O Trust has lost all credibility to be able to advise on this issues, as far as I am concerned.'
Yes - 'Something needs to be done against the persecution of Hen Harrier and other species of raptor on so called managed moorland estates.'
No - 'Driven Grouse Shooting has to stop, brood meddling will just give land owners and gamekeepers licence to carry on with same old harmful practices they have used for decades. '
Undecided - 'An utterly disgraceful proposal'
No - 'brood management is illegal'
No - 'Why should you play God? Just to please rich land owners who think money gives them rights to do to wildlife what they like. '
Yes - 'lack of any pragmatic Consercation effort outside of militant celebrities alienating good game keepers starting to wear thin.'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'Deal with the cause of raptor persecution, Wildlife Criminals!! Removal of the raptors is sending out the wrong message. '
No - 'Hen harriers are already legally protected let's not pamper to the shooting fraternity'
Undecided - 'But I would support a management trial, or even a cull on Sparrow Hawkes as they are the most evel of birds and must add to the decline of many small birds!'
Yes - 'Brood mgt is working satisfactorily in other countries. Need to make use of all mechanisms at our disposal'
No - 'Completely unacceptable whilst raptor persecution remains so high and harriers, in particular, at at such low population levels.'
No - 'I agree with the RSPB's view that brood management could potentially be cautiously experimented with once breeding hen harriers have reached a certain number. The obvious objection to brood management (now and in future) is that it makes conservation principles subservient to the business interests of grouse estates. Why enshrine conservation principles in law if we then permit a massive carve out such as this? Certainly when there is no indication that parts of the grouse business are even remotely wanting to listen - don't forget, hen harriers and other raptors continue to be killed illegally - I remain strongly opposed to the introduction of brood management. Parts of the grouse industry are growing ever more belligerent, and, I suspect, raptor persecution will increase due to retaliation (in their eyes) for the inconvenience (in their eyes) of justifiable conservationist outrage. In short, this is not the time to be handing out concessions when, after all, the basic problem is one of illegality. Sure, let's suddenly step back and hand out a huge concession to grouse moors. And in so doing tacitly accept that people who carry out raptor persecution are somehow above the law. I don't think so.'
No - 'Why should this happens, estates need to learn the law but respect it! A bird like this should be left to expand in numbers naturally!!!!!!!!!!!'
No - 'It is not possible to translocation birds as suggested by Hawk and Owl Trust'
No - 'Before any control scheme is even contemplated the illegal killing has to stop. All these appeasement schemes do is encourage the criminals to continue their killing.'
Yes - 'Relocation has worked for red kites and white-tailed eagles, why not try it for hen harriers which globally enjoy a wide range of habitats?'
No - 'The root cause is illegal persecution and HOT's Chairman says Wildlife Crime cannot be stopped. What an admission! HOT should remove the word Trust from their name! No Trust whatsoever. Hang your heads in shame!'
No - 'Leave them alone to breed normally and re-structure the grouse shooting industry to it becomes walk over again not from butts.'
No - 'Leave the hen harriers and other birds of prey alone.'
No - 'H&OT getting in to bed with the criminals. A sorry demise for a previously admired NGO.'
No - 'This doesn't address the issue of gamekeepers illegally killing raptors. Brood management gives into these evil people. You're effectively suggesting putting a restriction on Hen Harrier numbers and pandering to criminals. '
No - 'Unbelievable that they would even consider this.'
No - 'Illegal acts by others do not mean we should spend yet more time, care and money on brood management for a species which is perfectly able to raise their own young! Its the survival of the adults which is the big problem and brood management is not addressing that.'
No - 'It is the height of human arrogance to think they can interfere with nature like this. It is not a matter of doing it in order to feed people, its just for sport.'
Yes - 'The rationale given by Philip Merricks in his interview was wholly unconvincing.'
No - 'Mark Avery has summarised the reasons clearly enough. This is a cop-out measure designed to pacify the grouse moor owners. Modern grouse moor management is unsustainable in many ways and should not be supported as a suitable use of moorland.'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'This article doesn't mention what is meant by 'brood management''
No - 'WE SHOULD NOT GIVE IN TO THE SOLUTION FAVOURED BY THE GROUSE SHOOTERS TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR SO-CALLED SPORT'
Yes - 'The RSPB currently do this for Golden Eagles, with chicks taken to Ireland and soon to Southern Scotland, also Sea Eagles and Red Kites, so why not for Hen Harriers?'
No - 'It's a cop out of the issue of confronting wildlife crime.'
No - 'Once raptors stop being killed illegally on, or close too, grouse moorlands, then I might change my mind. It is up to moorland owners and managers to show good faith in reducing these figures. '
No - 'The scheme would give the grouse shooters 'carte blanche' to do as they please, in fact to carry on in their same old ways. They have proved they are not to be trusted.'
No - 'Brood management is merely a diversionary tactic by the anti Hen Harrier camp. Stop the illegal persecution and Hen Harriers will do just fine!'
No - 'I cannot see why HOT think this will stop persecution.'
No - 'Absurd suggestion, they've had time to get their house in order and they haven't. Time to ban driven grouse shooting, then if they persist; ban walk up grouse shooting. '
No - 'Already had a fair idea of how I would vote, but Talking Naturally podcast helped clarify my ideas.'
No - 'The stresses on a HH in terms of, for instance, a rapidly changing climate system, loss of habitat, availability of food, farmland poisons and the use of illegal poisons mean that it is essential that they are allowed to attempt to raise as many of their young as possible if they are to be in with a chance of long term increasing numbers.'
Undecided - 'Brood management should not be supported as that would be caving in to the shooting lobby.'
No - 'Bonkers idea!'
No - 'It`s giving in to criminal activity on grouse moors. Tackle the real problem, not skirt around it'
No - 'Thought I would at least listen to what Philip Merricks had to say, but not surprised to find it did not change my mind. Well-meaning, no doubt, but brood management seems like appeasement to law-breakers and I am deeply unconvinced of the scientific basis to it. Too much 'elsewhere' without being specific about areas thought suitable. One area that was mentioned was Exmoor. But last Exmoor Hen Harrier nest was in 1945, the last year before keepers returned from the war (proven that many persecuted species benefited from the keepers being away in the army, here and elsewhere). Red Grouse, Ring Ouzel, and Merlin all lost from Exmoor as breeding species in last 20 years so island of suitable habitat much reduced for whatever reason - does not augur well for any putative HH reintroduction. Many Pheasant shoots in area too - really unconvinced by PM's assertion that pheasant shoots would not react in same way as grouse shoots plainly do to the presence of breeding HHs.'
No - 'Sport can be defined as equal opportunities for BOTH sides!'
No - 'When there are 12 pairs in England out of a potential 330 pairs if left alone by landowners and their lackeys I should say not!'
No - 'This should not be considered until there has been a significant increase in Hen Harriers breeding successfully in England'
No - 'It would appear that a significant amount of people within the shooting fraternity are still killing raptors. Until this stops I feel that there shouldn't be any concessions to such groups.'
No - 'It is foolhardy tacitly to endorse illegal persecution of a protected species by pandering to the requests of people of ill-will.'
No - 'Brood management is designed specifically to limit the density of Hen Harriers. This includes on large upland areas that are designated SPECIFICALLY as Special Protection Areas for this species. It's legal basis is therefore seriously in question. '
No - 'I believe it is immoral to even discuss controlling the numbers of an endangered species'
No - 'Why are we considering a trial, which will effectively give the go ahead for these wealthy criminals the green light on culling anything they like, so what is next Golden Eagles? '
No - 'You would be rewarding criminal activity"'
No - 'HOT got this badly wrong - this is about organised crime in our uplands - this needs to be sorted first!'
No - 'We should not consider a cap on Hen Harrier numbers to accommodate shooting interests, illegal persecution requires robust stance not compromise.'
No - 'Brood management is a possible mechanism for limiting harrier populations on grouse moors. It should not be a pre-exquisite for the cessation of illegal raptor persecution.'
No - 'It leads to a cap on numbers well below the true carrying capacity in the UK. '
No - 'TN is good to seek out alternative views. It just sounds like H&O T is too much in someone's pocket.'
No - 'Hawk and owl trust are all about the money'
No - 'We do not have a viable upland Hen Harrier population and to translocate chicks is not in the best interests of the species. Survival of fledged Hen Harriers is low anyway. The best way to address low numbers of HH is to stop the persecution of the species.'
No - 'It would be far better to enforce the law of the land.'
No - 'The criminals need to stop the killing so that hen harriers (and other raptors) can manage their own broods.'
No - 'There's no point meddling with brood management until there's a reasonable population and an end to persecution.'
No - 'Hawk & Owl are a disgrace to conservation. They should be campaigning to ban Driven Grouse Shooting, not offering a reward for years of unmetred persecution.'
No - 'Unless hen harrier numbers are allowed to recover first, brood management is just giving the criminals what they want.'
Yes - 'Logical resolution. Get on with other threats to wildlife. Eg intensive farming'
No - 'Any organisation which claims to support raptor conservation must place the survival of the Hen Harrier above the survival of the Grouse industry. '
No - 'I think the Hawk & Owl Trust has sold its soul. Looks like the officers/trustees have been infiltrated by the game shooting fraternity.'
No - 'For God's sake, grouse moor owners and managers along with their gamekeepers are acting illegally in killing not just hen harriers but many other protected species. '
No - 'There is no possible reason to support brood management when there are so few broods to manage. Or maybe this is just an implicit admission that Hen Harriers are routinely persecuted by the grouse shooting industry.'
No - 'A ban on driven grouse shooting will restore Hen harriers much quicker and much cheaper. Just stop people shooting them.'
No - 'Grouse shooting should just be banned. In this day and age when humans are supposedly better informed and educated about these matters there shouldn't be the need for these archaic sports! '
No - 'Its land owners that need managed not hen harriers. Harriers have more right to be on these moors than money grabbing land owners.'
No - 'I listened to the podcast interview with Philip Merricks but my view has not changed. I don't agree with his stance that brood management is the only solution and that we must accept a level of illegal persecution of hen harriers on grouse moors. Killing raptors is illegal and plain wrong. Stop the killing. '
No - 'Hen harriers should attain favourable status across UK uplands, occupying all suitable habitat (including habitat that should be restored to good condition). That means they exist at natural densities, not artificially suppressed ones. '
No - 'I am totally against any form brood management of hen harriers. It is wrong. If driven grouse moors have to survive with this sort of meddling with a protected wild species of raptor then it should be banned.'
No - 'Can't believe we even have this debate in the 21st century. '
No - 'You're just playing into the hands of the killers, why not prosecute? Brood management wouldn't then be needed to protect them.'
No - 'The harriers will still be shot if they venture near a grouse moor. These are wild animals, they cannot be trained to do as instructed like a sheep dog.'
Yes - 'Very unhappy about the RSPB's uncooperation on this matter, while they're happy enough to encourage it with other bird species. In addition, Mark Avery & Co is not helping matters any!'
No - 'Leave Hen Harriers alone. It is a slippery slope and we should be fighting against those who persecute raptors. This is a license to be 'interfering' with nests of a protected species. I don't think HOW should even be considering this. '
No - 'it does not address the root cause of the problem'
No - 'far too soon to be contemplating this. May be justified in limited cases ONLY once there are 100s of pairs across English moors'
Yes - 'Why are organisations such as the RSPB frightened of the word quota? Surely a brood management scheme is the same thing?'
Yes - 'It has been very successful with other birds of prey'
No - 'This is why Chris Packham quit the Hawk and Owl Trust. Why consider brood management when we have so few hen harriers? Why should the minority interests of a privileged few trump the interests of our country's besieged natural heritage? Leave the hen harriers alone!'
Yes - 'Only political grandstanding prevents this management technique being used. '
Yes - 'The sooner the better. Let's get going with this.'
No - 'A couple of points, This defeatist attitude towards "rogue" moorland owners and gamekeepers is just not acceptable. Law-breakers should not be appeased just because they are difficult to apprehend. If "rogue" moorland owners and gamekeepers are responsible for the killing of hen harriers then it is moorland owners who should pay for such a scheme as brood management if it were to proceed.'
No - 'Before you can manage Their broods they have to have a sustainable number of breeding pairs that are not being persecuted by people on their natural habitat. Stop the illegal persecution and start protecting them. Then and only then can you even consider brood management.'
Yes - 'I've just heard the podcast and the HOT seem to have a very good argument. We have so few pairs at the moment that any sensible idea ought to be tried'
No - 'The shooting fraternity clearly ignore the law as it stands. How could they possibly be trusted to stay within any guidelines? It's time to make the landowners responsible for the misdemeanours of their staff.'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'seems people like Packham disagree so I would certainly need to know far more before voting'
No - 'Not science based and another pressure on Hen harriers '
No - 'You can't brood manage a population of birds that barely hanging on maybe when there's 300 plus pairs in England it would be worth looking at again '
No - 'This is a licence to kill adult birds.'
No - 'I believe that entertaining this concept when the species is at such low population levels and while it is still blatantly being persecuted in defiance of the will of the majority of the British and European people is indefensible. Even if it works, and the population increases, what is the long-term strategy? And would we entertain the same approach for eagles? This cannot be sustained, and should have been rejected at the "thought experiment" stage.'
No - 'It feels like they are forced into this position in the face of aggressive bulling from the destructive gamekeeping industry. HOT, Hen Harriers need all the protection they can get, rethink this.'
No - 'It's letting the wildlife criminals off the hook. HOT should get back to managing nature reserves - they do that quite well.'
No - 'The proposed scheme, in my view, will not increase the number of wild hen harriers successfully nesting in England.'
No - 'This just vindicates criminal activity.'
No - 'Three points from Philip Merricks conversation (a) He mentions the impossibility of stopping illegal killing - Introduction of a licensing system for shooting estates, which could be withdrawn should illegal activity on that estate occur putting a vicarious responsibility on landowners, would have a dramatic effect. In other words hit the estates in the pocket (b) He fails to recognise that ownership of property such as real estate does not give the owner the right to do just as they want regardless of law. In effect ownership of property is an estate held in 'fee simple' from the Crown, in other words subject to the laws of the land (c) I would argue that most birdwatchers are passionate about conservation and are extremely concerned about what is happening to our wildlife and are not just disinterested 'museum' visitors to bird reserves as he seems to suggest. '
No - 'It I totally pointless when all scientific evidence points to the fact that fledged birds will just be shot or poisoned on another moor. The only way forward is to ban driven grouse shooting. Why should the tax payer fund criminals?'
No - '* Its illegal under the European directives to interfere with a nest. * Trial is being heavily pushed by shooting interests to further avoid the issue that birds are being killed illegally * Its a delaying tactic. * Not all shooting estates would sign up to this. More HH would fledge and be shot the year after when on new territores. '
No - 'Not until Hen Harrier numbers are recovering and their persecution is largely absent, then I may be persuaded'
No - 'I do not agree with rewarding criminals - you wouldn't give a shoplifter 4 cans of beer to stop them nicking the spirits.'
No - 'I think it is ridiculous to even contemplate brood management whilst numbers of hen harriers are so low and I am very surprised that a so called conservation charity would want any part of it, at least until numbers have increased significantly.'
No - 'however I would support double clutching - as Carl Jones did with the Mauritius Kestrel. That way twice as many young should be reared. Hen Harriers move around so I dont believe removing birds from estates that dont want them would make a lot of differece. Stiffer penaties - including prison sentences for landowners - by those enforcing the law would help! '
No - 'i feel they are just trying to keep the peace with the shooting industry and estate owners. its because of them that hen harriers are vanishing.because of the controlled management of the moorland etc,more and more wildlife is going to suffer.as a member of the H.O.Trust i want them to stand up to these people,not shake their hands.they are ignoring the laws of this country and the harm they are bringing.IT MUST STOP.'
No - 'Of course Philip Merricks is proceeding with good intentions but the Hawk and Owl Trust's proposal for a hen harrier brood management trial fails to look at the wider land management picture and is more than a little naive. For example, how in the real world would it be possible to "police" effectively his condition 2, as described in the podcast interview? Also, what if anything would a hen harrier brood management scheme do towards curtailing criminal persecution of other nominally protected species, for example peregrines on grouse moors? Conceivably, there might be a compensatory increase in other (i.e. non-hen harrier) persecution. Philip Merricks states that he has yet to see a conservation argument against a hen harrier brood management scheme. There is such an argument which is this: in effect the scheme would support the present system of red grouse management, i.e. management of the intensive sort; in recent years evidence has come forward, increasingly, that there are other significant environmental negatives (beyond just killing of raptors) linked with that type of management; and if there were to be a general, of necessity quite substantial, de-intensification of red grouse management for shooting purposes (to the overall benefit of the upland environment) the motive to kill hen harriers should disappear or at least be much diminished. One can make this argument without being opposed to grouse shooting per se.'
Yes - 'I have always thought that as Hen Harriers in Northern France are present hunting over vast acres of cereal crops and don't seem to be (surprisingly for France) shot. Could not some French chicks be brought over and reared in the same way Red Kites were reared in outdoor cages. They would be reared on sympathetic farmers land in southern England and released in non-moorland habitat or moorland in Devon, Somerset and Cornwall.'
No - 'I have cancelled my membership as a direct consequence of the Trust's stance on this issue.'
No - 'Having read Inglorious, it is utterly pointless until the illegal killing stops. What would happen to the released birds?'
No - 'Given the virtual absence of nests in England how on earth can brood 'management' be justified? Until levels reach a more acceptable level I am unsure why brood management is even being discussed by serious scientists / conservationists. '
Undecided - 'I don't think Phillip Merricks was the right person to discuss this on behalf of the HOT. I think one of the 'profs' such as Steve Redpath would have provided a more scientific and informed view.'
No - 'I had always thought that HoT was an honourable conservation organization with the best interests of the birds at heart. Their stubborn adherence to this silly idea makes me think they are on the payroll of the grouse-shooting industry. In my humble opinion they have now lost credibility as a conservation organization, which is such a shame as I know they have some dedicated staff who have done a great deal of good conservation work.'
No - 'Brood management is a concession to the grouse shooting industry in return for the cessation of illegal hen harrier persecution. We should not need to and should not reward criminals for giving up their illegal actions. There is also little reason to trust the grouse industry to stop killing birds of prey illegally even if brood management were to go ahead. Finally, this would set a bad precedent. If they won this concession game shooting interests would to start to demand the setting of population limits on other birds of prey.'
Yes - 'It is worth undertaking the trial. But if it does not work. Then I will support banning driven Grouse Shooting. It is time we stop "pussyfooting" around and send a Grouse Moor Manager to Prison for a few years.'
No - 'Allowing 'brood management' would undermine the legal protection currently afforded (at least in theory) to our birds of prey.'
Yes - 'I didn't think I'd support HOT on this matter but having listened to the podcast and read a lot of articles I can see where they're coming from. Enforcing the law doesn't seem practical so the only two options are to try brood management or ban grouse moors. The latter isn't going to happen so the former does at least seem worth a try.'
No - 'The H&O 's decision is not supported by rational thinking. Other motives are at work! Appeasement of criminal actions is never the answer.'
No - 'No compromise with criminals.'
No - 'Will not support brood management until the 'shooters' admit they are killing harriers et al, and give some 'ground'. As a person who shoots, these people do nothing but harm to what should be an enjoyable and sustainable sport/method of providing healthy ethically sourced food.'
No - 'Rewarding criminality only encourages it to continue.'
No - 'Now is not the right time for a trial. The killing has to stop. Six pairs is only around 2% of the potential population. Once the population in England has grown to healthier proportions and the shooting fraternity have shown they can compromise then brood management can be discussed/trialled - not before! If HOT are so desperate to use their expertise then maybe they should be discussing a reintroduction project.'
No - 'stop destroying the uplands and killing birds of prey!'
No - 'This in a rather round about way puts responsibility for hen harrier absence on conservationists, i.e. if they don't agree to brood meddling then hen harriers will be killed. Complying with wishes of criminals just for those who want to kill grouse for fun. '
No - 'Given that H&OT involvement in the scheme is supposedly contingent on total goodwill from the grouse industry (ie. no persecution), it is absurd to be even considering proceeding while there are suspicious hen harrier disappearances still without adequate explanation this season, as well as a confirmed shooting.'
No - 'Hen harriers can survive very well without human intervention. All it takes is for those response to stop breaking the law and killing them. Permitting BM is a cowards way out; we need NE to protect our wildlife not placate individuals who kill birds of prey for profit or pleasure.'
No - 'This is nothing short of a total sellout. Merricks is a disgrace, and should be removed from his position forthwith.'
No - 'There should be no compromises for wildlife criminals and their landowning bosses. Vicarious liability for English landowners now !'
No - 'Society does not 'reward' other businesses that routinely act illegally, we prosecute them! If driven grouse shooting is not viable without raptor persecution then it should be allowed to fail as a business (assuming persecution stops, and that's a big if!), or be banned if persecution continues. Hen Harriers are iconic and part of a bigger problem - so if brood management is agreed (after a minimum number/density of pairs have been allowed to breed on grouse moors), what will be done to address persecution of other raptors, raven et al. It's a long and slippery slope with no end in sight and should not happen. Vote No!'
No - 'Shouldn't compromise until there are >300 pairs of Hen Harriers in English uplands'
No - 'Merricks does not represent H&OT members but does a good job representing the interests of countryside criminals.'
Yes - 'Only on a trial basis and only because it appears to be the only way in which Hen Harrier broods may be allowed to survive. It must not mean relaxing efforts to bring to book ALL those selfish people who are prepared to shoot Harriers in the belief that this will further their ability to go on destroying protected wildlife.'
No - 'Incoherent ,ill-informed waffle. Philiip Merricks. What a pompous ****!! Evidence base?? '
No - 'Philip Merricks states that brood management will provide game keepers with two options: either they disturb or shoot hen harriers that settle on 'their' moor, or they ring a Defra 'HOTline', and HOT will send their HOT Squad in to remove the hen harrier brood (presumably causing the adults to desert, else what's the point?). Either way, the game moor is relieved of its 'problem' (hen harriers). This is, frankly, bizarre. As far as HOT is concerned, the hen harrier, rather than intensive driven grouse shooting which is only viable in the absence of hen harriers and other protected wildlife, is the problem, and hen harrier removal is the solution. Further, although brood removal is merely to be 'trialled', it is a trial of a larger scheme, which would entail the removal of large numbers of hen harrier broods, every year, paid for by Defra - presumably out of scarce conservation budgets (they're hardly going to use Defra flood defence funds, are they - so the Defra funds will have to be diverted from their existing conservation budget). If HOT/defra failed to maintain this hen harrier removal service in perpetuity, hen harriers would continue to attempt to nest 'too close to each other' on grouse moors, causing a perpetual conflict. On-going brood removal (and tagging) would be an extraordinary long-term commitment, the costs of which would surely keep on rising as the hen harrier population increases and ever more pairs attempt to nest in the upland 'death zones'. '
Yes - 'They are part of our country side in the u,k and should be here too stay. '
Do not know enough about the subject - 'Get it started'
No - 'Birders want Hen Harriers to thrive in their natural habitat. Lowland birds were persecuted just as much. Perhaps gamekeepers should be tagged so we can see what they get up to! Prosecute the landowners whose land Harriers are killed on.'
No - 'Never give in to lawbreakers, thats what they are.'
No - 'This is a scarce bird with a poor breeding record. This trial does not address the real issues; grouse moor owners need to learn to live with wildlife and the owners need to be punished for the actions of their - often unwilling - staff.'
Yes - 'I'm prepared to support on brood management on Hen Harrier providing it is of significant benefit to the Hen Harriers,But we must clamp down very strongly on the amount of illegal shooting'
No - 'Provide a chink and it will be exploited'
No - 'How can any brood management be carried out when only 18 young were reared in England! With none on grouse moors!! Don't you need broods before thing about managing them? '
No - 'Why manage wild birds? All areas of upland moorland should have a breeding pair of Hen Harrier as well as other raptor species - they can manage themselves. Its all about natural selection!! Its become a landowner crusade. A word in high places could change all of this.'
No - 'Brood "management" is NOT conservation. A healthy habitat which supports a healthy harrier population should be the aim.'
No - 'I am sick of folk who know nothing about these moors. Hawk [= harrier ] and owl trust = short eared owl which are killed in their 1000s each year by these moor owners. 42 pairs of short eared owl on one moor last year when protected and 22 pairs on another. Once the voles crash they move onto unprotected moors and guess what happens then! So just on 2 moors you are talking of 128 adults + young which could be anything from 2 to 6 per pair + average 256 = 384 owls to be killed on other Red Grouse moors. Remember that was the total from only 2 moors so should I add another 0 on my figure for short eared owl!!Other birds killed include peregrines, buzzards even kestrels and any thing that might remove a feather from a Red Grouse or just disturb the shoot from the 12th August on wards. Red Grouse will not fly to the butts if owls, harriers, falcons, eagles or buzzards fly in front of the beaters. No point talking about 'brood management.' Where are you going to put all these short eared owls, peregrines etc! '
No - 'The proposal appears to play into the hands of those who want to go on eliminating Hen Harriers, and is a reward for illegal activity. I very much doubt that those who currently destroy them can be trusted to play fair with brood management in place.'
No - 'Certainly not until there are enough broods to 'manage'! Once we have a similar number of hen harriers to that of ,say, Ospreys then the question may be raised again. '
No - 'Their job is to support Birds of Prey not shooters.'
Yes - 'Pay the landowners a subsidy for their grouse losses to HenHs. Tax payers already pay for the police to participate in rural policing and species protection.Once the landowners see that HHs are attracting ecotourists they'll soon sit up when they realise that tourism could start to fill their pockets,in a legal way , not breaking the law as they are doing now. Get the nestlings away from the grouse moors and re-establish them on e.g.Salisbury Plain,Elmley,Exmoor, Wales New Forest. We'll never stop the killing,there's too much money at stake. As far as getting politicians to strengthen laws to deter the criminal element of the grouse shooting fraternity is concerned,we shouldn't hold our breath! Aren't the grouse moors ecologically managed and if they weren't ,then wouldn't they revert to forest,which isn't HH habitat. Subsidise the landowners.'
Yes - 'As a person who lives in Northumberland where hen harriers still occur and we had two breeding pairs this year I am getting very tired of ceaseless immature rantings from well meaning but ill informed birders labelling ALL gamekeepers as the cause. Keepers played a huge part locally in the increase of pergrines ravens kites and buzzards and we need to realise not ALL gamekeepers are persecutors I have to say what a lot of people are thinking too in that he complete failure of the team of so called "watchers" to save the eggs when the Geltsdale male bird disappeared shows the amateurism of these people. Lets work with Gamekeepers and of course the Hawk and Owl Trust We have nothing to lose except a self ego that RSPB etc are supposedly the only ones that care. Thanks for letting me have my rant.'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'The way forward is to apply the law. The current government clearly has no interest in doing so at the moment, so needs to face a concerted pressure campaign speaking with one voice in order publicly to embarrass it. '
No - 'I thought there might be something in it until I heard Mr Merricks podcast & sensed smoke & mirrors at work'
Yes - 'Anything positive which helps the Harriers in the face of the criminal grouse moor fraternity who are Victorian in their outdated attitudes. Harriers need help.'
Undecided - 'Until we make moor owners vicariously responsible for wildlife crime on their estates whoever commits it on their behalf and fine them proportionally to how much the estate earns as well as imprisoning perpetrators nothing will change'
No - 'Brood meddling is a non starter for many reasons, the main one being Red Grouse shooting interests continue unabated to persecute all Raptor species on the grouse moors, in particular the Hen Harriers. Until the estate owners and their gamekeepers stop killing Raptors and obey the wildlife laws there will be no recovery of harriers and hence no broods to manage. Ban driven grouse shooting now !!!'
No - 'The shooting industry should put its house in order and stop the crime. There should be no further debate, let alone collusion. Enforce the law!'
No - 'It is not solving the real conservation problem - illegal destruction of harriers'
No - 'It is about time the moor owners were brought to justice'
No - 'Brood meddling is ludicrous, we just need to see the law obeyed. Chris Packham was right to resign over this'
No - 'Absolutely not! He is completely vague on the details of how such a scheme would work which should be fundamental to deciding whether such a scheme is feasible or ethical. And should conservationists really capitulate over the persecution of birds of prey? And what species are we going to have to capitulate over next - buzzards, peregrines, kites etc...'
No - 'we need to get to the root cause of the problem, grouse moor management. No Harriers, no Defra payments which is crazy for these people that don't need subsidising to shoot grouse.'
No - 'Philip Merricks is a hapless amateur. How did he become head of HOT???'
No - 'Harriers are legally protected and deserve a better future than that proposed by the Hawk and Owl Trust.'
Yes - 'At least this seems less combative and constructive way forward. Nothing will be achieved by extremism and hostility'
No - 'What is the point of brood management if there is nowhere for them to live? The first step needs to be making sure the Land Owners are held responsible for the actions of their Gamekeepers.'
No - 'totally wrong and its pandering to the shooting communities interests and not those of conservation or protection of wildlife'
No - 'The Hawk and Owl Trust is now Chaired by someone who knows nothing about Conservation in the real world and is ill informed. The Talking Naturally interview with P Merrick's was disturbing to say the least. God save the Hen Harrier but not; well you know what I mean'
No - 'Hen Harriers should be allowed to breed in their natural habitat and not forced into other areas just because it is apparently in the interest of money making shooting organisations and the owners of the land which red grouse breed.'
No - 'There is insufficient space here to list my objections to this proposal. However, to start with (1) the risks are too great as there are too few HH to try this (2) HH will not know that they are not allowed to return to the Grouse Moors, they range over large distances and will continue to try to occupy favourable habitat (3) this will not resolve many other serious environmental issues resulting from management of driven Grouse Moors. I resigned from HOT as a result of my email exchange with Philip Merricks over this.'
No - 'we should not interfere in this way, tackle the problem at its heart, the shooter, trappers, poisoners etc.'
No - 'Although there may be some ethical, well run shooting estates the hen harrier figures year on year suggest a significant number be it explicit or implicit) support gamekeepers persecuting harriers. Given this scenario, the HOT are most likely going to be taken for a ride in any attempt to work with estates (estate spin a few yarns & get an escuse of "legitimate" harrier killing) Until there is a significant upturn in harrier numbers, then the behaviour of the "bad" estates create a situation where almost impossible to trust any estate and so working with estates is not currently a sensible option '
No - 'We are not dealing with Poultry Rearing here ! these are Some of our Rarest Breeding Birds of Prey which are being Blasted Out of The Skies on these Grouse Shooting Estates .The only way forward is to Stop this Criminality at its Source by Banning Driven Grouse Shooting . And giving these Birds a chance to Naturally build their numbers back up ,all they need is to be given this chance.And not Bl__dy interfering with brood management !!!'
No - 'I don't think that the H&OT can be taken as a serious conservation organisation ever again! '
No - 'stop the persecution and the population will grow naturally,simple.'
Yes - 'It appears little change is imminent so rather than waste these birds efforts to breed I would be happy to see the young used to colonise areas where they are absent rather than their lives be wasted in the sure knowledge that the parameters set by HOT will be violated and we will see them support the needs for the moors to be licensed and better regulated.'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'I listened to the pod cast, very disappointed with Philip's attitude, so if your opinion is not the same as his, you are not sensible! I'm not an expert in conservation, but brood management is avoiding the issue. The slaughter must stop!'
No - 'Why should the Hen harrier be displaced from its natural home just to allow grouse shooting '
No - 'The illegal persecution of British raptors needs to be stopped.PERIOD.'
No - 'It is not acceptable to control a species that is only in danger due to the grouse hunting industry's greed, wealth and ignorance. It time for the people that do not like to kill things to call time on this foul behaviour and stop ignoring the fact that nature needs the support of the whole nation and should not be governed or managed by Government policies...ever. Strict laws to convict and jail the land owners who employ staff who kill Hen Harriers and other raptors, must be put in place'
No - 'This means pandering to criminals. They had their chance to sort matters out but failed. They do not deserve to be offered a trial.'
No - 'It doesn't seem to matter what compromises are made, birds are still being shot. As Packham has said, stop killing the birds and dialogue can begin.'
No - 'HaOT have lost the plot. Are they just naïve or are they trying to get cosy with the powers of darkness?'
No - 'The problem lies with the attitude of land owners and their employees, not with the Hen Harriers, relocating birds is a sticking plaster not a solution. '
No - 'The news that Hen Harriers had a successful breeding year in 2014 simply proves that they don't need our interference and their numbers will recover if a greater commitiment to punishing persecution is made. This Hen Harrier 'management plan' is no more than a attempt to appease the shooting lobby. '
No - 'Hen Harriers need the full protection of the law....not brood management of the few left.'
No - 'Completely out of step with current thinking and conservation methods. It is beyond bizarre that the HOT are pursuing this brood meddling. Criminal behaviour of shooting, trapping, poisoning wildlife is being rewarded by a once respected conservation group that intends to say 'to save you shooting the birds and being criminals we'll dispose of them for you' Then treating wild birds as zoo exhibits that need to be reared in captivity. But a little bit of research shows that HOT grew out of a field sports interest by folk who's hobby was falconry. So perhaps no surprise that they are in cahoots with old field sports, land owners and feel happy about captive birds. '
No - 'Not natural. Banning driven grouse shooting and making landowners responsible and liable for actions of their keepers is the only way HH (and Peregrine) will survive on grouse moors. '
No - 'By deciding to take part in HH brood management trials, the Hawk and Owl trust in my opinion are condoning the illegal killing of these birds.'
Undecided - 'Maybe have a reintroduction programme down south. Stronger penalties for land owners where hen harriers disappear using satalite tagging to give evidence.'
No - 'What would be the point until the killing has stopped, any released harriers would quickly disappear. Until there are sufficient hen harriers in the English uplands to sustain a breeding population brood manipulation would be difficult if not impossible.'
No - 'There is no point when carefully nurtured and tagged young "disappear" whenever they approach grouse-shooting estates.'
No - 'Credit to Philip Merricks for engaging in the conversation - but I'm afraid his expectations were very unrealistic. We KNOW sat tagging will not protect birds. We KNOW that birds released elsewhere will move to keepered grouse moors. So this doesn't fix the problem of illegal persecution, or remove it from the equation. I was also concerned that the HOT's undoubted expertise in reintroduction projects was encouraging them to focus on reintroducing HH to other areas without grouse (eg southern England). This is a totally different debate, and should be clearly separated from persecution in northern England, which needs everyone's focus without distraction. '
No - 'With a Government run by friends of the shooting community there will be no way grouse moor owners will ever be held accountable or serious prosecutions made. Brood management is pandering to the landowners.'
No - 'No brainer,culling by the back door.'
No - 'Why should Harriers be managed. They have as much right to be on the moors as the grouse'
Undecided - 'While in principle I disagree with brood management and would ideally want to see as many HH as are naturally sustainable roaming the moors and countryside of England (and the UK in general), I can see that compromise with shooters has to start somewhere, the current situation isn't working, and while they are able to avoid prosecution for persecution, we have to alter our fight slightly, and if this is where it starts then it has to be considered.'
No - 'Not an appropriate response to the current situation.'
No - 'Existing tools haven't and probably never will work. this has the best potential to move the conservation status of hen harriers forward by testing and demonstrating a mechanism to alleviate the conflicts of interest between different value sets. We live in a managed environment reflecting the values people put on nature. Non-intervention is a cop out from the choices that have to be made if these values are to be recognised and will lead to the loss of some at the expense of others.'
No - 'Existing tools haven't and probably never will work. this has the best potential to move the conservation status of hen harriers forward by testing and demonstrating a mechanism to alleviate the conflicts of interest between different value sets. We live in a managed environment reflecting the values people put on nature. Non-intervention is a cop out from the choices that have to be made if these values are to be recognised and will lead to the loss of some at the expense of others.'
No - 'Brood 'management' is so bizarre and ridiculous it is unsustainable and no long term goal other than keep grouse Moors artificially free of predators. Subsidies from Defra should only be paid to estates with breeding Harriers'
Yes - 'I did not see this Poll. I agree with conservation of threatened species and your record in helping to do this is excellent. The Hen Harrier I have not seen in my part of Lancashire for many years, if there are, no one is sharing. But I understand why. If you are helping keep this bird from being wiped out, then it can only be good. Believe there is balance and of course, I would like to see all Wildlife roam free, but some greedy people out there. Thanks '
Yes - 'From a science perspective I would say no not yet and not until there's more chance of continued reintegration - but the investment in a brood program might generate more political capital and will and even if not successful will raise the debate a notch and make what's happening now much less palatable. '
No - 'A simple understanding of Hen Harrier population dynamics is all that is needed to realise that brood management is unworkable.'
Yes - 'The ultimate objective must surely be to produce more hen harriers nationally. The Defra facilitated Hen Harrier Joint Recovery Plan, which includes BMS, would achieve that. I am not aware of anyone who challenges that.'
No - 'Naive, utopian , unpoliceable, weak argument. The shooting estates have been getting away with this too long. '
No - 'Deluded to appease those who are acting illegally, destroying our biodiversity, solely for their selfish pleasure.'
No - 'Would contravene IUCN Reintroduction Guidelines to implement BM before fully addressing threat of illegal persecution.'
Yes - 'lets be honest and record and publish the real reasons for all deaths as soon as they are known.'
No - 'Brood management does not cure the problem of persecution: the cause of the Hen Harrier's decline.'
No - 'Embarrassing and cringe-worthy nonsense from Mericks.'
No - 'This is just legalising the persecution that is driving this species to extinction in an English context'
No - 'Brood Management should only be considered when the species is at a favourable conservation status i.e. not in decline every potential territory is occupied .'
No - 'I don't trust Philip Merricks, he has been underhand and until now evasive. I don't believe it's the Hen Harrier in this scenario that is his no1 priority '
No - 'Brood management is the same as giving up in my opinion. We need to address the real problem... stop bloody shooting Hen Harriers!'
No - 'Hen Harriers belong in our hills. It is time birds of prey were actually given the protection they supposedly have on paper. Brood meddling is just egg collecting for the 21st century. We have had enough of such 'raptor cleansing' techniques.'
Yes - 'In an ideal world we could stop wildlife crime without forcing hen harriers to leave their natural nesting grounds. I would like to see grouse shooting banned and I feel sure it will disappear in the future as we progress further as a society. For the moment, hen harriers are on the edge of extinction in the UK and I feel like this trial is worth a go. The last 20 years of other methods have had dismal results, and it sounds like it's at least worth a shot. '
No - 'Apologists for the shooting industry. Disgraceful and disgusting. '
No - 'Stop meddling & get the ILLEGAL game keepers convicted Criminals should not change the laws protect ALL our birds of prey'
Yes - 'It makes a lot of sense to have all parties involved in such a worthwhile scheme.'
No - 'Would only consider BM once the English population of HH was over 150 pairs approx half of what the available habitat suggests could support'
No - 'Hen harriers FLY! Released youngsters will naturally try to recolonize and nest on the upland moors where they will then get shot! Ridiculous waste of time and money. Much better to ban driven grouse shooting, remove tax exemptions on shooting estates and make examples of convicted hh killers.'
No - 'No the hen harrier should left to nest with interference both legal or illegally . The killing of these birds in uk is national disgrace and any proposal by manage there young or egg should not be allowed . This not way to protect these birds any '
Yes - 'id support all genuine causes like this to protect our birds/wildlife'
No - 'Basically gives control to a shooting industry that continues to break the law and slaughtering of anything that gets in their way this will continue unless driven grouse shooting is banned. '
Yes - 'Hawk and Owl Trust seem to recognise that getting alongside landowners is vital for conservation. RBA and others promoting all-out war, not on crime but on the whole community, can only be a disaster for conservation. Stick to rare bird news - you're good at that ;)'
No - 'The scheme proposed is not designed to increase populations of hen harriers, but to remove those that eat into landowner profits. That's not "brood management", that's "brood removal under the guise of conservation".'
No - 'we shouldn't need to if grouse shooting was to stop allowing Hen Harriers to flourish. '
No - 'Why should the birds suffer because criminals are not caught /prosecuted. Surely there should be a more robust action undertaken to apprehend the criminals.'
No - 'Moving wildlife to fit in with people, instead of people changing to accommodate the wildlife. What a world!'
No - 'The Hawk and Owl Trust have clearly lost the plot. Listening to the podcast revealed that Phillip Merricks has no real understanding of the situation and is clearly living in his own dream world. Well, The Hawk and Owl Trust, you and your ideas are a joke! You need to wake up, get real and stop adding fuel to the fire. Go away before you do any more damage.'
No - 'Really, really bad idea'
Yes - 'Better BM than no hh at all. Something needs to be done, but banning shooting is not the answer '
No - 'The Hen Harrier is a protected species that is on the verge of extinction. The law as it stands is hopeless against the vindictive and cruel practices of upland land management which is only interested in money, to the detriment of everyone and everything else. The culling of Grouse for pleasure (it is NOT a sport, in a sport the opponents have an equal chance of winning) is outdated and only done by a very limited wealthy minority. In the meantime our uplands are being managed in a way which destroys the very fabric of our countryside, pollutes watercourse, increases flooding, and kills wildlife. All this is done using tax payer subsidies, given to already rich people. Grouse shooting should be banned outright and then there would be not perceived need for this ridiculous suggestion'
Undecided - 'First the killing must stop'
No - 'Having spoken to HOT and read up as much as I can about Hen Harriers, I remain against the idea at this stage. HOT seem to be suggesting that it's impossible to reform driven grouse shooting in any way and therefore, we simply have to suck it up and allow them to have exactly what they want. I would argue that this is not really the essence of partnership working. I think the campaign of misinformation against RSPB waged by the shooting fraternity has been nothing short of scandalous. As more satellite-tagged harriers turn up shot, as sadly they probably will, the more the pressure on those responsible for the crimes will build. The continuation of 'business as usual' is not an option. They should be obliged to reform, if they want to continue stewarding what are, after all, all of our uplands. And just finally, why are HOT making these statements anyway, when they are not a member of Defra's Hen Harrier Sub-group?!'
Yes - 'If we want hen harriers flying about england there's got to be compromise and the habitat of value is mainly owned by the grouse shooting estates who have the money to maintain that habitat. If the proposed trial is good enough for Nigel Middleton, Sculthorpe Nature Reserve's Warden and an expert in marsh harriers in england, it gets my vote.'
Yes - 'This should go ahead without delay, most interested parties are in favour and it defies logic that those who claim to be the birds biggest supporter are the only ones against this. '
No - 'why not bring charges against wreckless gamekeepers would that not send a strong message with a min of 5 yrs in jail or massive fines not the silly wrist slapping they get now '
Yes - 'Anything that helps these birds will get my vote!'
No - 'Having spoken to Charlie on this issue, I am so pleased that that a poll has been set up to allow birders of the UK to vote. I would love to vent my disgust as to Merricks attitude. I can now see much more clearly why Chris left the H&OT !!'
No - 'Why rear hen harriers in cages in order that they be released then killed? Brood management is a sop to the criminals. They want rid of breeding harriers on grouse moors. This just gives them what they want. The HOT position is naive at best, and will do nothing to stop our raptors being killed. '
No - 'No need to trial a brood management system that has already been proved possible in France. What needs proved is that grouse shooting industry will leave hen harriers alone!'
Undecided - 'Brood management should not even be considered until there has been a significant and sustained recovery in the numbers of hen harriers breeding successfully. To do it against a background of widespread, illegal killing of hen harriers is to pander to the wishes of those who enjoy shooting for "fun" - and to ignore the fact that these killings are CRIME!'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'Please run another article explaining what brood management is, so readers can make an informed decision.'
No - 'LEAVE WILDLIFE ALONE! FOR IF YOUR CAUGHT AS A GAMEKEEPER! YOU PAY DEARLY! LANDOWNER STRAIGHT TO PRISON! NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO STOP ME FROM FROM SEEING THIS BEAUTIFUL RAPTOR! JUST SO THEY CAN SHOOT!'
Undecided - 'Surely the leading scientist Ian Newton, Steve Redpath backing this project must be worth listening too as well. Ian Newton is much respected so as long as he is involved in this trial of capping of numbers and relocation it must be worth a go - but must not overshadow the fact that Wildlifecrime is still crime. Can't licensing of estates also take place? Laws must chage to protect our precious wildlife. Still undecided on this matter, but the larger orginisations are getting nowhere fast it would seem. '
Do not know enough about the subject - 'Not until there are a lot more Hen Harrier'
No - 'The birds should be left to breed in peace and not be killed in for the benefit of the "gift of the grouse" brigade who should be vigorously persued by the Police until the prisons are too full.'
No - 'It's a short term fix - we need to change management of the land for a permanent solution for hen harriers and all species. '
No - 'I smell a rat. This is Philip Merricks, business man first, conservationist second. Just who will be getting the grant funding for 'hosting' then re-homing the captured nestlings? Nice little earner, but absolutely not the priority until HHarrier numbers reach a viable population.'
No - 'Brood management does not address the problem of illegal killing. Vicarious liability of estate managers with stiffer penalties needed. This was not mentioned in the podcast. '
No - 'Brood management is dealing with the symptoms not the cause. Stop driven grouse shooting and manage heath-lands for all not just a blood thirsty elite .'
Yes - 'Or swapping new laid eggs for dummies, replace at chipping, so brood not lost if predated/adults killed. Anything to increase no's produced.'
No - 'Brood management is a possible option for 'fine-tuning' management if there is an evidence base for localised site-related issues. This would be in the mix together with other options such as: learn to live with and enjoy/celebrate HH; lower sporting expectations to a suitably sustainable level; improving conditions for alternative prey; supplementary brood feeding etc. Brood management should not be on the table whilst HH are on the critically endangered list. '
Yes - 'There are many places in the u.k. where there is no grouse shooting so if this scheme increases the areas where Hen Harriers can breed in relative peace and quiet then it is worth the effort.'
No - 'I resigned my membership mainly because of their stance on HH brood management.'
No - 'HOT are working for the interests of the shooting industry and not for our persecuted raptors and are fools for doing so.'
Do not know enough about the subject - 'For any group not to support this innovative program leaves them open to questions over their motives...have they really got the birds interest at heart or are they politically motivated.'
No - 'Classic attempt at divide and conquer by the quisling head of HOT. I suspect this was planned some time ago. '
No - 'It's not so much as a blank "no". First stop the persecution, allow the pop'n to build to a higher density and then it might be up for consideration.'
No - 'Do it make scence to release young birds which will venture on to game estates to be killed . Know is my answer . All the effort should be to bring pressure on the powers that be and the shooting estates to end the persecution of raptors full stop.'
No - 'Stopping wildlife crime and the on-going persecution of raptors, including Hen Harriers, should be the first priority before considering anything else.'
No - 'I believe brood management will eventually be neccessary for a more widespread population, however, a stable population is necessary to begin with, something not achieved currently.'
No - 'Moving the eggs is tantamount to collusion with the criminals'
No - 'Philip Merricks and the HOT Trustees should look at sorting out proper governance of their organisation so a CEO is appointed and the oversight and day to day running of the organisation is separated, instead of being run and ruined by one man's misguided views.'
No - 'Brood management is an ill-informed form of intervention for a critically endangered species. Espoused by organisations that would rather see the ecological balance bottled up as a curiosity for fee-paying visitors to their "zoos". Leave conservation to the experts and those with the right goals in mind.'
No - 'It's too soon to consider BM. The moor owners must show they can support a healthy, non persecuted population first. The answer is not to move the wildlife away from the problem areas.'
Yes - 'As Philip says "the only thing that we differ on is how to stop the killing". It really exasperates me how some really powerful voices are focusing so much of their attention on this issue. It's driving a wedge between the conservationists trying to find solutions. I also worry that those who are ideologically opposed to shooting are taking the reigns on issue that needs common ground rather than polarisation. Let them try brood management - you can say "I told you so" we're back in the same position as we are now. '
No - 'The Hawk and Owl Trust are convinced that they can end Hen Harrier persecution, that a brood management trail is good science and that the rest of the NGOs and birders are more interested in squabbling and protesting with banners than practically helping Hen Harriers. This message was conveyed to me and others at Birdfair. Here is another interesting interview from the Hawk and Owl Trust's press officer, who now believes she is an expert on inbreeding and reintroductions: https://olliesbirdingblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/22/doing-a-deal-with-the-devil-hawk-owl-trust-return-to-the-hen-harrier-fray/ Their minds are closed.'
No - 'There is only one species on this planet whose broods need managed and it's not the Hen Harrier...'
No - 'Would support only when more than one pair of Hen Harriers per grouse moor and once there are at least 75 breeding pairs in England'
Undecided - 'Are the scientist backing the HoT, to be involved in any proposed trial? '
Undecided - 'Giving into criminals will not protect our Hen Harriers. Why do Hawk and Owl Trust support the people who are killing our Raptors??????'
No - 'I'd rather see an outright ban, or failing that the licensing of shooting estates.'
No - 'It's wrong to pander to people who break the law. To back them up and support them. These aren't spoon-billed sandpipers. These birds would brood their own chicks if not persecuted. '
No - 'If I'd been in favour before the podcast I would probably have changed my mind! Philip Merricks own description of the lengths some gamekeepers would go to remove Hen Harriers pretty much underlined the fact that BM will not stop the killing. I believe that putting BM on the table will just give the Grouse Industry the opportunity to waste more time haggling over numbers etc. and meanwhile Harriers will continue to dissappear.'
No - 'HawkandOwlUK are pandering to killers of Hen Harriers by even considering brood management. They have surrendered to grouse moor owners by saying "As we can't stop them killing Hen Harriers, we need to work with them" I say NEVER!!!!'
No - 'You do not meet those who do wrong half way. This is appeasement of the worst kind. What is the point of the Hawk and Owl Trust? Give ground here and the wrongdoing line will just move again and then what, more appeasement? '
No - 'Things like this need to be led by science, and if the knowledge is lacking they should be left alone.'
No - 'It is indeed naive and poorly-timed'
